Transcript of The Broken Skull Sessions With Ric Flair! This special is now available on-demand on the WWE Network.
You can follow me on Twitter @TheHootsPodcast
Description: Steve Austin and Ric Flair shoot the breeze in this conversation between two legends! Hear the stories behind The Nature Boy’s historic first WWE title win, his epic WrestleMania matches with The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels, as well as Ric’s run as part of Evolution.
Opening Monologue
Steve Austin: Hey, I’m Stone Cold Steve Austin. Welcome to Broken Skull Sessions. My guest today is the greatest of all time, Nature Boy Ric Flair. Hey, man, how are you? Great to see you
Ric Flair: Good to see you.
Steve Austin: I actually saw you last night at the hotel. I had a chance to have a couple of cocktails. You were kind of going slow over there. Then I went back to my house and because I was so excited about having a few beverages and seeing ya, I had to wind down. So, i’m a little rough this morning. How are you?
Ric Flair: That’s good. I’m great. I was looking forward to today.
Steve Austin: What have you been up to lately? Cheers.
Ric Flair: By the way, i’m drinking this of own my accord, everybody.
Steve Austin: Moderation is the key to anything, correct?
Ric Flair: It’s a word that i’m learning to pronounce.
Steve Austin: How are you with all the health stuff? And how are you feeling right now?
Ric Flair: I feel fabulous. It’s been two years. It will be three years in August. August 17th when it happened. I finally got out of rehab center and the hospital and everything at the end of September. And got my memory back probably February or March. I could remember things going forward, but I couldn’t remember the past, so that came back. And then I had the four heart procedures in May of 19′ in seven weeks. And finally, knock on wood and everything.
Life On The Road
Steve Austin: You know, I’ve got a picture that I wanted to put up on the screen. A picture of you and me back in the day a couple years ago. Guys like you and me, when I show you that picture, like you and I were in many ways the same. I consider you to be the greatest of all time. We were both guys that the road was kind of a home for us. And you hated to go home. And once I got home, I was ready to go back out on the road. But it’s very easy to let things kind of get out of hand. All the boys or many of my peers consider you to be the greatest of all time because not only were you the greatest world champion of all time, defending the belt all over the world, just doing it at a record pace, and going to all the 60 minute matches you had. But I don’t know what the new generation is, but the generation of guys, you know, when you were around, before you and a little bit after me, the lifestyle, it is what it is, I guess. I enjoyed it. Sometimes I went a little too far.
Ric Flair: Yeah. I obviously did, too. You made an interesting point because I said it last night. What happened with me is when I say I hated going home, it’s because I would be gone for three months and get to go home one day. And when I say I hated going home, it wasn’t until after Ashley and Reid were born, I looked forward to going home. Prior to that, because my older kids lived in Minneapolis, I went home to, hey, what have you been doing? I hated going home because you can’t get anything resolved when you’ve been gone for three months in one day. So, you would go home for one day, you know, you just want to sit here, yet you got people asking, what are you doing? Why aren’t you home more? Sometimes I would just go — like if I was headed to Miami or something like that, I would go a day early, just check into the fountain bleu. Thought I was a big shot back then.
Steve Austin: We were talking last night, you still get the itch sometimes because you get bored.
Ric Flair: Oh, I do.
Steve Austin: You’re in a good place now. Financially, everything is covered. But you get restless sitting at home.
Ric Flair: I’m lucky enough that I have Wendy and she likes going out, too. What I have learned, though, and this was the hardest thing. I wish I had this. I’m kind of emotional about this. I wish I had been able to turn it down when I was younger to fully invest time with my younger children, which I only had real time with when Bischoff fired me or sent me home. Those were the best days of my life. I look back on it. In the year that I took off or the company got bought out and Vince and all that, because i’m doing all that now with her children. And like we went to Vale and just came back from the turks. I found out yesterday we’re going to Zurich, Switzerland. I was told that yesterday morning.
Steve Austin: Yea, but there were a lot of guys in the business, myself included, I never went by because I was always on the road. And I enjoyed being on the road.
Ric Flair: No, I did too. I had so much fun in towns like Chicago and that. I mean, you know, i’m hanging around DiBiase, Hennig, all these guys. I mean DiBiase was such a great guy, you know Teddy, but you don’t know Teddy like I know Teddy.
Steve Austin: No, Teddy has mellowed out. I know where he’s at now, but I know where we has was, too. Not the same places.
Ric Flair: I tell him that all the time, so i’m not telling anything that I haven’t said to him.
The Nature Boy’s Fashion & Meeting Buddy Rogers
Steve Austin: Do you think that through all of the years from starting in the business, to buying all the wardrobes on the road — I never knew you did that. One of my questions was how in the hell you managed to always look like a million bucks?
Ric Flair: I bought new clothes as I traveled and I plugged them. Michael’s in Kansas City and you remember all the promos.
Steve Austin: Who did you model that after?
Ric Flair: Well, I met Buddy Rogers in 1978. I don’t think I modeled myself after Rogers, but I kind of came up with that. When I met Rogers, I saw why he had so much heat with all the guys, really arrogant. I mean Rogers had that natural, you’ve seen pictures of him when he was young. Genetic gifted body and all that. He did train, but he was the first guy to have a tan. He would walk in the locker room, he looked at me and he said, let me tell you something, kid, there’s only one diamond in this business and you’re looking at him and he shook my hand. I swear to god, hence the saying, diamonds are forever.
Steve Austin: What did that do for you when he told you that?
Ric Flair: It was great. I ended up working with him. He was dressed immaculately. After the air plane crash, it just clicked. This is a different deal than anybody else is doing. The clothes. He wore the jacket, I went to the robes.
Steve Austin: Did the suits come from Nature Boy?
Ric Flair: Yes. I got that basically from him, but I always felt like — my dad said to me when I was a kid, what would my patients think if they came into my medical office and I was wearing shower shoes and pair of jeans? Not even realizing what he was saying to me, the importance. My dad was always dressed professionally and that was part of his life.
The Flair Flop
Steve Austin: I’ve got to ask you about the Flair Flop. What did you call that? What was that? The face bump.
Ric Flair: What happened was in the old days, Johnny Valentine was the first guy that I was tag team partners with in the 70’s. John was one of those guys that everybody should have met Johnny Valentine. So if you tried to throw Johnny from rope to rope like the guys do now, Johnny wouldn’t go. He said nobody gets away with throwing me into that rope in real life. I’m thinking to myself, why am I tag team partners with this guy? And Wahoo would bet him half to death. And he couldn’t fall back and he never did. He would just fall over, so I said that’s pretty cool. Later on in life, i’m going to try it, make it a little different and a little more entertaining. But the real answer to that is I did it because people liked it. As my athletic skills declined, especially later on in life when I started doing it more, people liked it.
Steve Austin: But I heard that Ole Anderson hated it.
Ric Flair: He did. He hated the flip, too. Yeah, he hated it. I just knew there are things that you wanted to see guys do. A guy named Rick Cortez, want to see him press slam somebody, right? So Sting is out there and i’m thinking, you know, what can we do? Press Slam was it. Easy bump. It’s a controlled bump.
Steve Austin: What did Vince think about that front face bump? Did it make him livid? He was cool with it?
Ric Flair: Yeah, but he wasn’t cool with the slam off the top.
Steve Austin: Why?
Ric Flair: I got it from Harley. He called me one day in the office and he said what is it with this thing? Because what they were doing back then is Ross and Lawler were calling the matches. And Jim Ross, i’ve looked back on matches, 54 year old Ric Flair comes up to the top again. Lawler goes, unsuccessfully. So when I wrestled Shawn, remember? He climbed up when I retired. Shawn climbed up and had me slam him. Just the opposite of all the stuff I did, Shawn did in my match with me.
The Nature Boy’s Pop Culture Legacy
Steve Austin: I want to get to Shawn here in a minute. Did you realize back then the impact that you were making or would have on like today’s pop culture scene?
Ric Flair: I had no idea.
Steve Austin: You are revered and respected by some of the biggest rappers in the world. I think you’ve done stuff with Bad Bunny, Post Malone, Offset and a couple more.
Ric Flair: Rick Ross, Meek Mill, there’s a bunch of them. There’s offset right there.
Steve Austin: What are your thoughts right there? For you to really come around in the generation that you came around in your prime years, which were many, people still hold you to this regard and you can hear the wooo everywhere you go. Some people don’t even know where it came from. But they’re doing it because it’s a thing.
Ric Flair: 1974. It’s funny because i’m going to see LeBron tomorrow night. LeBron is the one that gave me the tag that I was the founder of swag. Oh, yeah. He said yeah, he’s the founder of swag and when he was growing up as a kid, the rolex watches, the women, the limousines, he said it kept him watching TV and kept him out of trouble. He said to me that rolex watch and all this kept me out of trouble and inspired me. You know, that’s a hell of a tag to put on a guy.
Steve Austin: You have thrown out first pitches for major league baseball games. You have gone to NFL Lockers and given speeches. That’s got to be pretty cool for you?
Ric Flair: It is, it is phenomenal.
Steve Austin: What’s your go to in a speech like that talking to professionals fixing to go out there and play in a professional sport? And they hold you in such high regard.
Ric Flair: I say to them that we are all on a level playing field, some are better than the guy you’re going to be against. Some of you are the same, have the same ability. You guys are better than the guy you are playing against, you already know it. You know who’s going to defend you if you are the receiver. You know who you are going to block if you are an offensive lineman. You already know in your mind when you go out there. Now it’s just about executing. I say to them in my business, you go out there every night and you want to be the very best that you can be. And when you don’t want to be that person and when you’re not ready to be that person, it’s time to quit. Steve Austin, you never went to the ring — I would see this in you. This is 20 years after my prime. I’m watching you in your prime, back and forth all day long. You’re just waiting for that music to go. I’ve told my daughter this, when you walk through that curtain, they know whether you know who you are because you’re trying to convince them about who you are. But if you don’t know it yourself, it’s hard.
The Pressure That Comes With Being The Best, Getting Color and Who Does Ric Flair Hold In High Regard?
Steve Austin: And I agree with that 100%. When I go back and i’m looking at your earlier matches, the way you walked out there, I mean it was a shoot.
Ric Flair: But I knew how good I was then. Then I went through a period of time where I lost my self confidence. When I was young, I mean I watched every match because that’s how we were educated. I’m following Tully and Arn against The Road Warriors, Ricky and Robert against The Midnight Express, Dusty against Sting and I’m on at the end of the night working with Sting or Dusty, it’s a lot to follow. So i’m geared up, too. I know i’ve got to go out there and I can’t stink the joint out. I’ve got to have a better match. And I would stay out there sometimes, much to the dismay of my opponent, saying we’re not going home until we’ve got this place right. We ain’t going home until we’re having a riot. Literally I believed that. I wanted to be the best.
Steve Austin: When you talk about getting the color, did you have carte blanche any time you wanted to do that?
Ric Flair: Yes.
Steve Austin: That was just understood?
Ric Flair: Yeah. But for a long time, like when we were doing the WarGames, they would put a list and tell the guys to work.
Steve Austin: Hey, I was always game.
Ric Flair: Me too, why not? Part of the show.
Steve Austin: One of the things that worked so good for you is you had that long platinum hair.
Ric Flair: Listen, while I’m in LA seeing you, do you know where I can go get this thing touched up? I could use a little.
Steve Austin: Haha I haven’t been there in a long time. Hey, I consider you to be the greatest of all time. I have said this a million times. I want to get off it and so do many people. I don’t want you to include me in this conversation. When you look back, because you’re on top of the mountain, like who do you hold in very high regard?
Ric Flair: I mean it’s a short list, believe it or not. When you consider my career, I’ve told you 100 times, let me just finish. The bigger star, I mean that’s what’s wrong with the business today. If you ask around today, everybody is great. Everybody is not great. That word is passed around so bad today. Everybody is not great. There are some good workers out there. But great is a whole different category. Okay, Steve Austin is the biggest box office to this date. Now, I wasn’t here for a lot of it. And I have told you this story. I have said to other people.
When Vince inducted you, and he was going down, what you have drawn and what have you done, and the fact that you’re a great worker, that’s number one. Number two, I don’t think he’s a great worker, he doesn’t think he is either, but you’ve got to go with Hogan for drawing money, I could be wrong. To me, because I think he’s a great worker, even outside of his gimmick, he has drawn a fortune, I go to The Undertaker. Now, you can take Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Hunter, you know, put us where you want to put us. But it’s the guys that have done both. This word great, i’ll tell you, it drives me crazy. Not going to give you examples.
It’s not personal, but you have seen guys like Harley Race was a great worker, but he will never get the recognition because times have changed. Terry Funk, great worker, better than Dory. I mean, he’ll never get the recognition because that time frame where you’re relevant, which is the word, right? Everything now is how do you stay relevant, right? Well, at 70 i’m relevant because of what I did in the 80’s. The cutoff for relevance for me is about the 80’s. So I probably got another five years to run with it. I’ve got some more songs coming out and to be on shows like this, I mean i’m the oldest guy you had on this podcast by 20 years. That says a lot for me, just the fact that i’m here and that you recognize me being here.
Steve Austin: Well, when you look back at the guys who have moved the needle in the business, like there’s guys that were attraction guys that drew and guys that were word class workers. And you kind of are in both worlds because you were a tremendous draw, but you also could work your ass off, you could do it all. There’s kind of two piles there. Some people crossed over a little bit in the middle.
Ric Flair: Let me say something about you, too, though.
Steve Austin: I was never near the worker that you were. Could I work? Yeah, I was really good, but not in your category, you know what i’m saying?
Ric Flair: You know when your best work was? When you were with Steamboat. Because when you went up North, did you have some great matches with guys? Yes, but you were so over and you didn’t have to work like that. Does that make sense?
Steve Austin: That makes sense.
Ric Flair: You could. But, hey, man, you know, you take care of yourself deal, right?
Ric’s Time In The NWA
Steve Austin: When you were down there in NWA and all the places you were, I remember most of you career from NWA. What was your favorite era or period?
Ric Flair: The 80’s for sure. And then Crockett, when Crockett kind of took over the NWA.
Steve Austin: What did you have to learn about being a champion?
Ric Flair: The first time I won it, I wasn’t ready. We have talked about that. I traveled around and, boy, I was lost. I stunk the joint out. I had to learn how to work with everybody. I was working with Wahoo, a great worker. Paul Jones, good worker. Jack Mulligan, good worker. I mean all these guys that I had been with, started and I didn’t worked with them but watched them, Ray, Nick Bockwinkel, Hennig, Harley Race. So I’m thinking to myself, I win a title, I fly down to West Palm my first night after winning the title and I wrestled a kid I had never wrestled and it was an hour. Wee struggled and it just got worse. Now, when I go back to the carolinas, huge money. Kansas City, I didn’t draw. Portland, I drew if they brought in Piper. San Juan and those guys, no problem in Puerto Rico. That was a hot territory. In Japan I drew right away. But I was a little bit intimidated until I got used to it because like, wrestling Tsuruta who was an 1982 Olympian and a big kid with greco-roman skills, and all the suplexes and stuff. It’s like wrestling Brock now, you know what I mean?
Steve Austin: When did you think you turned into a World Class World Champion?
Ric Flair: When I won the second time, it was great.
Steve Austin: Because the second time around, after dropping it, you’re like, okay, here we go.
Ric Flair: This was the second time I won it with the flair for the gold.
Steve Austin: I remember when I won the World Television Title from Bobby Eaton when I went down to WCW. I was like, okay, i’ve got this belt. What do you do with it? You don’t know. You’re trying to make guys, but you’re in jeopardy so that they can potentially take this. And so what are you? 16 Time? How many times is it now you have been world champion? You can’t even remember.
Ric Flair: No, it’s more than that. It doesn’t matter.
Steve Austin: But there’s an art to it. You don’t just get a belt, you learn how to work with the belt.
Ric Flair: It’s a learning process, like everything else. You know you mentioned a name there and I remember you wrestling, how good was Bobby Eaton? There’s a guy, great worker that nobody will ever know.
Steve Austin: Oh, I know. I always put him over because I know how good he is.
Ric Flair: When came off that top rope with The Alabama Jam, how many guys will you let do that you now?
Steve Austin: Not too many.
Ric Flair: Not too many guys can do it. Bobby Eaton was great. Not to change the subject.
Steve Austin: But looking at all the world championships and there’s a reason promoters kept going back to you, NWA specifically. There is an art in the business for storytelling. You’re trying to tell a story. How long did it take you to learn art of storytelling?
Ric Flair: You know with the belt, like the second time I went in, everybody was so hot. Like the first time in Florida they were so mad about Dusty losing, it kind of shut Florida down. Dusty left Florida. You know, so second time I got it, Dusty was booking. So it was a whole different deal. I had Dusty, Magnum, Barry Windham, Harley, out in Portland I wrestled against Piper. I went to San Juan with Carlos Colon, Jovica. And The Von Erichs were hot in the 80’s. So everywhere I went it was sold out because I had a major a-lister as an opponent. So it made a big difference. The timing was right. And timing is a lot of everything. I mean when you walk in the door, you went to WWE at the perfect time. I know you went and spent time with Heyman, but when you came out that door the second time, you know, with that new deal, I mean i’m sitting down there. You know I’ve told you this. I was pulling for you guys. I mean I was so disappointed, which I said on the record, at the way the company was being run and what was going on. I knew that the tide would turn.
Working With Harley Race & Vader
Steve Austin: In Starrcade 1983, you win the title against Harley Race. And then in Starrcade 1993, you would win against Vader. How did you feel about both of those matches? One or the other one mean more to you?
Ric Flair: The Harley, yeah. With Leon, what happened was it was supposed to be Sid. Sid and Arn got into an altercation in Europe and they suspended both of them. It was in Charlotte, so they came to me and I said yeah, i’m glad to do it. But Leon didn’t want to lose it. One of the real matches I had to fight back. And Leon was a little bit of a bully, but he didn’t bother me. But literally Harley, who was managing Leon because he was banging me in the ears. Harley said, Ric, please you are embarrassing yourself. Literally said that to me when I went out to the floor. He said you’re embarrassing yourself on me, so I lit up Leon. Both his eyes were black.
Steve Austin: During the match he told you that?
Ric Flair: I swear to god. Yeah, he said you’re embarrassing me.
Steve Austin: What does that mean when Harley Race, a guy that we both hold in super high regard and a guy who made you, when he tells you that, what do you think?
Ric Flair: I got up and I said okay, enough. You can see the match change. I had to light him up. Boom, boom. Boy, he had black eyes. I mean, he was a mess.
Steve Austin: I know Vader is no longer with us. What did he think when you started, hey, man?
Ric Flair: He didn’t say anything, just loosen up. Yeah, I said, Leon, hey, man, i’m sorry. We were outside on the floor. I could even tell you what turnbuckle we were at. He threw me out and Harley said what are you doing man? You’re embarrassing me and yourself. So he had me on the corner, he came walking around the corner. Waffled me. And man, I came up and then I hit him again and again.
Steve Austin: Did Harley say anything to you after that match?
Ric Flair: Yeah. He just said, you know, what are you doing? I said, Harley, I’ve lost myself a little bit here. He said, you know Harley, hey, what are you talking about? You’re Ric Flair. You know, that line I get from Harley.
Steve Austin: If you are in the ring with Harley Race, who’s calling the match?
Ric Flair: Early in the career, him. Later on, me. He trusted me totally. Takes a while to get their trust. Even with Terry. Because with Terry, Terry is all out there with the I Quit Match. If i’m going to be the bad guy, you know what I mean? And Terry at that point in time, he didn’t really care, he was having fun. And to the greatness of Terry Funk, the guy was a great champion, a great worker. He did everything Foley did, except fall off the cage. Right now as we discuss this, he’s really in bad health right now. Nash keeps telling me this. It’s only three traveling world champions left. I saw Dory at Rocky Johnson’s funeral, Terry and me. Everybody else is gone. Jack, Harley. Brutal schedule. I didn’t think it was like that back then.
Rivalry With Ricky Steamboat, Heel Or Babyface?
Steve Austin: You know, when I watch some of your matches back, one of the things I always loved about you is how you protected your calls. I meant you went above and beyond, you were head down or you were real close to the guy or you’re using your hands.
Ric Flair: Just pull it over and call it out. But like i’m sure with you, I know we didn’t wrestle the most, but sometimes you anticipate the next thing. Let’s try this. With Steamboat, it was just there. I was looking back on it the other day because it was like 31 years since we had those matches. I was 40 and he was 35. There’s another guy, great worker. You take Steamboat and even in today, put him on that show, 35 years old, who’s the best worker?
Steve Austin: Well, I still consider Steamboat to be the best babyface ever.
Ric Flair: Shawn would be right there. I came home one day. This is one of the greatest stories i’ve been telling for years. Reid, my son goes, do you do a MoonSault? I said no, why? So Ashley was big in gymnastics then, so I went over to her gymnastics coach and I said is there some way I can get into the harness here. I never ended up going. But I mean, you know, Shawn, he changed it around. He could work as a heavyweight. He had an attitude as a heel. He could go both ways. There’s two guys that could never be heels in my book that were great. Jack Brisco and they tried and he could get heat in the territory, but how can you be that handsome and that good and really get heat? And Steamboat was the other. I hated when Sting attempted it. I mean, some guys just don’t have it here.
Steve Austin: Yeah, but, you know, on the other side of that, when I look back at your career, I loved you as a heel. As a baby, I just didn’t vibe it. Why did you hate being a babyface so much?
Ric Flair: Because I had the most limited arsenal of all time.
Steve Austin: I didn’t have any more moves than you did.
Ric Flair: Yeah, but you were over. I wasn’t.
Steve Austin: As a heel, I mean, you can do it. You’re the dirtiest player in the game.
Ric Flair: I was a very good heel. I will say that about myself. As a babyface, I was a guy that couldn’t dropkick you more than in the waist line. I couldn’t do anything. I didn’t clothesline. I had the chop, the woo, a little strut and that was it.
Steve Austin: How many guys like you just couldn’t stand to be chopped?
Ric Flair: Oh, god. Bret Hart and Taker were the two worst. But Taker would tell me, you got three.
Steve Austin: What did you say? You know, Undertaker considers you the goat, too.
Ric Flair: Yeah, but he would tell me, you got three tonight. He’s got that big chest like a sounding board, right. But Bret hated it. We were in San Antonio one night and Bret goes, I hate this. But I promise you, I read an article the other day and Bret said if I chopped him again, he was going to knock me out. That conversation never took place. But it was my whole offense, even as a heel. My offense was the chop, a knee drop. These guys that had back problems, they worked with me. I said it wasn’t me getting you bumps. I told Steamboat, because he’s had a couple of back surgeries. You didn’t take any bumps with me, maybe a flying mare.
Ring Psychology
Steve Austin: There’s a couple of things that was always going to happen in your match. You were always going to get tossed off the top turnbuckle, and take that bump over. Probably get a press slam. But you were always going to clip a guy. You would kind of put that time in working a general body part, go back and forth, shine a guy up. But then get a little bit of heat, but then when it really come and settled in, you’d either have that chop block from behind and settle in to working that leg. Why did you decide on the figure four?
Ric Flair: The Figure Four, I got from Jack Brisco. Which is kind of like how we’re talking about things that I could say to you. So did you not tell me that Kevin Owens called you about using The Stunner? So, he’s a great kid. That kid can work, I mean, real serious work. So, you know, not changing the subject, but going back to holds and offense, so he does that. It’s great, but nobody else is doing it. Everybody is using that superkick. I can even remember sitting at a table, tv and they came down and the guy goes, hey, mago wants to use the superkick as a high spot tonight. Shawn goes, absolutely not. That was it. Now if you watch the show, I don’t want to tell the kids what’s up, but you can’t have 27 moonsaults, you can’t have 27 superkicks. And what used to be a finish when I started has drastically, I mean Wilbur Sinder, the abdominal stretch, St. Louis sold out.
Steve Austin: Harley Race with the suplex.
Ric Flair: Exactly, boom. So now, I want to say to the guys, less is more, but it goes in one ear and out the other.
Steve Austin: The Undertaker and Big Show said that last time they were on this show. Now here you are, the goat saying this on this show.
Ric Flair: Yeah well, because Taker for sure has been around to see it all. You know, that match with Shawn and Taker when Shawn retired is one of the greatest matches i’ve ever seen. And yes, did they do each others stuff and all that, but what made that match so good is the way they sold each other, does that make sense? Yea, I mean, kids today don’t understand that. You can’t judge that, but it’s because of the limited opportunity they have to work with other people. They have got that four and five man unit. And once that’s gone, what is different for me and so many people is from Brody to Steamboat to Stan Hansen to Shawn Michales to The Great Khali to Andre The Giant, Taker, I wrestled them all. I actually wrestled Andre in three singles matches. How absurd is that? I look at Eddie Graham like i’m looking right now and said, Eddie, you got to be kidding me? No, they’ll buy it. Well, Orlando was sold out. Takes me over in the headlock. I go, Andre, what are you going to do now? He said, boss, we just take it easy. I said, well, slam me or something. He said, nah, boss, just listen. Okay, i’m laying there in the headlock and you can’t even see my little feet waddling, he was that big. I had so much fun with him, what a great guy.
Steve Austin: What were you able to learn from a guy like Andre The Giant or did you?
Ric Flair: I didn’t really learn anything from Andre. I drove him around. Started in Montreal, John Ferer, Verne brought him in. And Verne put me in charge of driving him around. I’m sure he never forgot it because I was his Timmy White before Timmy White. I would drive from Minneapolis down to Chicago to the old amphitheater and then take him out to a restaurant on rush street and take to him to the bar. Hello, girls. Yeah, me and the giant. The guy had no privacy. After he got famous, I mean to me he was like there with Muhammad Ali, wherever he went, you could never get privacy. And boy, if he saw you walking through that airport and he was between flights, boss, I remember one time Luger was walking through Chicago and Luger was on his way to go somewhere to wrestle me. Andre pulled Luger in and he could hardly walk. He didn’t give you a choice, drink. I mean he gave you a choice, you could walk away. But it was just the way things were back then.
Steve Austin: I’ve always said that Hulk Hogan is one of the best guys ever reading a crowd. You know, he would sell for anybody and he was vulnerable. He was just larger than life person and character, but he would really sell. And he knew just how to get that audience to respond. Terry could work. He knew the mechanics of work, but I mean he’s a big guy in a big body, big man style. You were the guy who in your prime, what? 240?
Ric Flair: Yeah, 235.
Steve Austin: In that range, 6’1 and the ultimate bumping machine. What I always liked about you was your action, whether it was the Brody’s of the world or the Dusty’s or anybody, somebody that’s smaller than you, just making people and your storytelling. But what I really appreciated, just the way you read a crowd because like if i’m watching a Ric Flair match and i’ve watched a million of them. You can shine a guy up. You’ll grind him down, you’ll get that heat or there’s preliminary work you’re putting in before you really go to that trademark legwork, which only sets up the figure four. But when I watched you work, you just have this innate ability of hey, man, there’s time for some action here. And then that’s in the form of a high spot with the psychology applied to the time at hand. So what enabled you just to read a crowd so well and say, hey, I’ve got to get these people off their ass or they are coming down, here’s what we do. I was good at it because I listened, i’m deaf, but I listened. You’re the master
Ric Flair: And I tell people that to this day. I don’t think, I know the guys that go out there and work and all this, but until you walk through the curtain and you’re in front of 10,000 or 20,000 people or whatever it is, you don’t know what the reaction is going to be. Every crowd is different. It could be 100 miles down the road. Town is going to be totally different. We never know, right. I just believe that a guy like a Steve Austin, a Steamboat, a Hogan, Ricky Morton was another guy, Kerry Von Erich, why would you ever cut them off eve, when they are just blowing the roof off the joint. When they finally are through blowing the roof off, then get them down. A little bit, let them have a comeback and then really hit it hard.
That’s my philosophy, especially like tag matches. Like Ole got so mad at me on night. We were in Philadelphia. It’s me, Ole, Arn and Tully against Dusty, The Road Warriors and Nikita. Dusty is wearing Road Warrior paint in the old civic center, 10,000 plus, right and they were insane. And we just fed them, boom, boom. Dusty doing everything, right, hits us all. Road Warriors slamming it. And Ole is going, cut them off. I said cut them off for what? Why? We get a little heat. Arn finally catches somebody in a SpineBuster or the DDT. Five minutes of heat, then go home, entertain them. For 30 minutes, you know. And, you know, that was just my philosophy. If they are buying it, they came to see, they didn’t come to see Stone Cold go out there and be laying around getting the shit kicked out of him. They came to see you kick ass. Take the guy in the corner, stomp them 35 times, you know what I mean?
I mean i’ve got that memorized. I remember with Shawn, Shawn walked out the door, his entrance. He turned it around for different reasons. But his old entrance, I mean, they were going insane. Same thing with Hogan. But like Tampa, I said it to your wife and Wendy, she had you in a stadium, but never in an arena. Ice Palace, boom. The music. I cant imitate it, but the crowd was there. And you can stand there for five minutes, I’m watching this now in Tampa, five minutes before they sit down. You say one word. One word. What? Then you’ve got to calm them down for five more minutes. And then you start your promo, that’s called being over. Now, i’m telling you. Me and Hogan are sitting there watching that and i’m thinking to myself, this is pretty damn cool. All you’re doing is rehashing what we did yesterday.
Steve Austin: And what I was doing, I was actually reading the crowd. Because like you said, you can go out there and feel it when you go out there. I’m taking a gauge. And i’m seeing where I can go, based on that experiment. And I process things pretty quickly and went out there and got them.
Ric Flair: You did that your entire career there.
Steve Austin: Yeah but i’m talking about movement within a match and we’re segueing all places. I want to go back to I remember back in our WCW days. I modeled my career, my early part of my career after you because I was so influenced by you and I just looked up to you. A lot of people back in the day, because I had a little bit of an athletic style, this might be the next Ric Flair. We both know there’s never going to be another Ric Flair. Nonetheless, we are there and we have some six man tag team matches, whether it was Anderson, South Carolina, those kind of local tv tapings we used to do when we were all based out of Atlanta. You’re probably still in Charlotte, spent a lot of time in the dungeon where a lot of crazy things happened. We had some six-man tags out there and i’m thinking, hey, man, this guys, he’s getting a little bit older now and i’m going to show him what’s up tonight. But i’m standing on the ring apron, and all of a sudden, you go there and start going into Ric Flair Mode. I’m sitting there thinking, man, you’ve got a long ways to go before you get to where you’re at.
Ric Flair: I just knew things so well. I just said to you, you’ve got plenty of time to do this and you did.
The Royal Rumble 1992
Steve Austin: It was really interesting because you know how competitive the business is and I think you were so successful because you took it so serious and I was, too. But when all of a sudden, the guy that you are measuring yourself against, all of a sudden you’re out there in the ring with him and watching him doing work up close and personal, it’s like, dude, you ain’t never going to be Flair. Your days as the world champion, you traveled all over the place, you are doing sixty minute matches, so I take you to the Royal Rumble in 1992. You entered at the number three spot, you wrestled for over an hour. You come out being the world champion. It was one of the most entertaining Royal Rumbles i’ve ever seen. Here we go, Davey Boy is in the ring. Davey looks like a million bucks.
Ric Flair: I had been out all that long with DiBiase the night before.
Steve Austin: What’s your mindset as you walk out here? Are you nervous?
Ric Flair: I was so happy to be there. No, I was not nervous at all. There’s Kerry, The Tornado. The discus punch.
Steve Austin: Shawn was so good.
Ric Flair: My god, are you kidding me? Unreal.
Steve Austin: Bossman was over. A great big man.
Ric Flair: So sad, all these guys.
Steve Austin: That was nice. Ray could clip you.
Ric Flair: Yeah, he was a working fool.
Steve Austin: Almost didn’t make it over, but he did. Finally the action settles down. Guys are fixing to start coming back in, but there you go. I love it, that’s what i’m talking about. How old were you here in ’92?
Ric Flair: 42.
Steve Austin: 42, god dang, man
Ric Flair: 42 or 43.
Steve Austin: I like the way you play the on exhaustion here. Boy, here comes your bud. Roddy Piper running down the ring. Oh, no. Look at the entertainment here. There’s Piper, a house on fire. Piper was great because he was just so wild. The finish of the match here, Sid is going to take advantage of the situation. And you’e going to get a little assistance here. Okay, there you go. That’s all you need, it’s almost like how I got a couple guys out of the Royal Rumble myself. Did you ever get tired during that match because of all the 60-minute broadways and all the training that you did? Did you like Royal Rumbles? Because they could be a real pain in the ass to work. By the same token, they can be really fun. You are very active, doing a lot of stuff with a lot of guys in the match.
Ric Flair: Well, here’s the thing. You know, when people talk about this, I never thought of this as being like a great match.
Steve Austin: For a Royal Rumble, it was a good match.
Ric Flair: Well, yeah. But what i’m saying, though, I think what made it great was that there’s like 20 guys in the hall of fame in that ring right there.
Steve Austin: That was half of my point, because everybody was so over.
Ric Flair: They were so over. A big difference in walking into a battle royal now where 10 of the 30 guys mean something. Does that make sense? It’s even harder for the marquee guys at the company and it’s really hard for a guy that they are trying to build to start from the ground bottom. You’re going to have those ups and downs and those lulls. Because there is only really room for a handful of people to get that attention. And they build these tv shows, you know, with the idea that all this stuff they are building is going. to all come to fruition within the body of the royal rumble and sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn’t, in terms of the crowd.
Steve Austin: All right. Now, you’re the World Heavyweight Champion for the WWE and you cut this promo to back the performance up. And you look fresh as a daisy here. I know because you had done so many 60-minute broadways. All right, tell me about that. There’s a lot of elements going on here.
Ric Flair: I drank at least 12 martini’s with Mr. Okerlund that night at The Hilton Hotel in Albany, New York.
Steve Austin: When you said real world champion.
Ric Flair: I was taking it to them. Screw them.
Steve Austin: Taking it to the other side?
Ric Flair: Yeah. See, now, when I left there the first time, I had no self confidence issues. I was ready to go. So when I l landed into WWE the first day, Dayton TV, I was ready to go. My self confidence started in the late 80’s. A whole different time. But that was — I was good to go.
Steve Austin: What did you mean by the tear in my eye?
Ric Flair: Um, I don’t know. Just stuff went out. You know how I am, I’m thinking on the move. Nothing I rehearsed. Nothing anybody wrote down to me. I’m thinking to myself, here I am, these guys didn’t want me. They run me out of town and here I am with the big guy, you know. I’m not driving the Chevrolet right now, man. I’m in a Mercedes Benz. And we have always been — there was a time in the NWA, as you grew up, was the it. And the WWE at that time not here, but earlier was a regional five state area. The NWA guys couldn’t get along and fall cracks in the line. And this guy Vince, you know, said hey, i’m taking over the world, man. My dad, you know, didn’t like me doing this, but i’m doing it my way. And as a result of that, i’m there and that was the biggest deal. Much bigger, I would never have conceded that when I was the NWA Champion, but it’s a different world now.
Steve Austin: You said in this promo about staying number one, this being the only title. You considered yourself for a shoot as the best wrestler on planet earth at that time, for a shoot.
Ric Flair: Yes. I don’t think I look at it like that. I probably wasn’t as confident as I was when I was 35. But yeah, I knew then that I was.
Steve Austin: No, but that’s the mindset. Because, you know, as you are talking about going to talk to these different professional sports teams, whether it’s the NFL, MLB, or NBA, it’s the mindset of a champion. Yeah, maybe the outcome is predetermined, but, hey, man, we take what we do very seriously and you look at the business or I look at the business with many of the same ideas of the way you do. It’s a shoot to me, it’s a work, but it’s a shoot. And that comes out in that promo and that’s the legitimacy of the business and the presentation.
Ric Flair: And that defines the guys that become great, sacrifice everything. You did, I did. There’s a whole laundry list of guys. You sacrifice everything. That’s what makes our business, our sport different. You know, because the other guys, they can fall back on stuff. In this business, when you’re going for it, man, you can’t. There’s no second flight. You’re not going to sit in row two. You know what I mean? And to this day, it goes on. It’s a 365 day a year business. And you’ve got to be ready to go. You don’t call in sick, you go. If you are on the marquee, you are there.
Steve Austin: There’s a couple of guys in that video. Jack Tunney. But Mr. Perfect, Bobby The Brain Heenan, Gene Okerlund, you know, guys that are no longer with us.
Ric Flair: Three hall of famers. Bobby Heenan, the greatest manager of all time. And believe it or not, because I don’t think you probably ever got to see it. Bobby Heenan in the 70’s when I met him, one of the top 20 workers in the business. Did you see him work a full match? Unbelievable. Bobby Heenan, you’ve seen him bump? But in the 70’s, you’ve never seen him like in his leotard? Well, Bobby Heenan could work. I mean unbelievable. When I say great worker, I don’t mean for like an hour and that, but excitement. Bobby could really work, let me put it like that.
Working With The Von Erichs, The Rock N Roll Express, WrestleMania VIII
Steve Austin: Just going back through some of the guys that were in that clip, but so many hall of famers, like you said there in that match. And you wrestled Kerry on a couple of occasions. What do you remember about Kerry Von Erich.
Ric Flair: Phenomenal athlete, the nicest kid in the world. Just lost.
Steve Austin: Many people don’t understand how ever The Von Erichs were. You do. In Texas, gosh.
Ric Flair: Yeah, I do. This is something that I get asked all the time. The five most over guys i’ve ever wrestled in my life are you, Hogan, Kerry Von Erich. Believe it or not, for that time frame, I’m going to throw Dusty, of course, right. But that fifth one, believe it or not, it was over in the carolinas is Ricky Morton. Me getting him down, me doing that thing to his face, I mean Ricky Morton and those teenage girls, it was insanity. And we did nine hours one week. You know about that? Everybody knows the story. We go 30 minutes. I let him beat me up. It was riotous. And the rib was Arn had to come out halfway through the match. He had already wrestled and he wanted to go. And out comes Robert Gibson. Nobody got involved, but they had to sit out and cheer the guy on. Ricky Morton was over.
Steve Austin: I know it. The Rock N Roll as a team was over like crazy and that high shrill pop they used to get when their music hit, because everybody loved them, but the girls loved them. Ricky is in my top category right there with Steamboat. But because he’s in a tag team, he doesn’t get considered for a lot of accolades. Ricky Morton was phenomenal. Why didn’t Flair vs. Hogan didn’t happen in WWE for WrestleMania VIII?
Ric Flair: I don’t know. We did work house shows. And as I have heard three different stories, one is that they were having a cash flow problem so they put us in the arenas first, which automatically to my mind killed it. I was never upset about it or anything. I never even asked. But I think ultimately the reason, I don’t think Vince and Hulk were coming to terms. I think Vince had different ideas. Hogan had, Thunder In Paradise looking at him. He was leaving and I don’t think he felt like dropping the belt to me, so Randy had it.
Of course, I gave it to Randy. And that was the last time we saw Liz. And Randy was in a bad way. You know, I went back around and then I finally got dropped on my head with The Warrior in Phoenix and I put it on Bret and Vince said to me, you can either come do a favor for Razor Ramon or you can go back to WCW because i’m going younger or you can go back and watch. So I had the best year and a half ever. Hulk, Piper, Bret, Taker, a little bit, DiBiase. I mean I had the best possible year and a half in the world and had more fun. I mean, I had 80’s fun with those guys. Oh god, european tours, Taker. I mean, I have had a lot of fun with him. I lost a couple of rolexes along the way with Taker.
Steve Austin: How many do you think you’ve lost?
Ric Flair: 4. Oh, gold with diamonds. No, I don’t believe in stainless steel.
STING & Finding Love/Security
Steve Austin: Tell me a little bit about Sting because you wrestled Sting on the first and the final Nitro. But when Sting came around, I was really watching. I was in Dallas. And Sting had a tremendous career and they call him the icon, but it starts with you because I believe you’re the guy that got him over. Am I wrong? I mean he was going to get there.
Ric Flair: I had something to do with it. They don’t give Sting credit. I know you do. But i’m talking about people that write about it. To take a kid and tell him to go 60 minutes which ended up being 55 minutes, you know, in the Clash of Champions. Now, Steve is not an aggressive guy, he’s just laid back, nicest guy in the world. Another guy, I can’t say enough good about him. And put him in the ring and like entrust me to do this with him, but he was so natural. If you work within the limitations of what he had, because it’s hard to go 50 minutes. But he was over and by the end of that match, he was over big time. Sting, I can’t say good enough about him. To go 50 minutes and he never took a deep breath. He was out there inside, we did it.
Steve Austin: Yeah, but not even talking about that, but talking about the matches that you guys had. You knew how to shine him up.
Ric Flair: Well, on that particular night, I should’ve figured out a way to get to the rope and have him drive me back. But. he had me so hard I couldn’t get to the rope.
Steve Austin: But just with the painted up face, the spike blond hair, handsome good looking guy. You guys are just, okay, the chemistry was there.
Ric Flair: Yeah, I wrestled him probably not as many times with Steamboat, but close. We were married like, god, five, six, seven, eight years. And to this day when I see him, he’s just one of the nicest guys. I know when I see you, I’m going to see a positive guy that has had a great career, having a great time in his life right now, happily married, no worries. It’s just Steve Austin. I see Sting, same thing. Whatever he decides to do with his personal life, he’s at peace with himself. Steamboat, the same way. I can’t think of a lot of other guys that right now in their juncture in life, their career is behind them — not financial problems, but just look how long it took me to find Wendy. And thank god that I did because I was still out there making bad choices. Nobody else made them for me. I made them. And I couldn’t settle down. But the girl right there, Wendy, 31 days by my side, never left the ER. Never left ICU. Never. So, you know what Vince did? He walked up in LA, gave me the check for Saudi before I left. You don’t do that. And. he said to me, here, I get it. Maybe this will make you feel better. He never does that. He does not pay in advance. He let that money earn interest.
Steve Austin: I know. But yeah, I’m the same way, man.
Ric Flair: All this you have here don’t mean nothing if you’re not with her. And you’re happy. And how many people, how many of us have it?
Steve Austin: How long did it take us to find it?
Ric Flair: Exactly. You have had it for 15 years. I have had it for seven. I think you said last night that’s the time you guys have been together. But my god, and i’m 20 years older than you, so look how long it took me. 63 years. Hey, man, I’ve been rich, I’ve been poor, I’ve been in rehab, I’ve owed the heiress 1 million once, 2 million once. I’m even, no bankruptcy. And I can probably count 1 million that i’ve got right now. Maybe, 1.5 and everything is paid for. And I need Wendy to buy me a boat.
Steve Austin: Now, if you could go back, would you change a lot of things? I think it all goes back to the moderation thing, right?
Ric Flair: No. It’s just me with bad choices, Steve. I was so wild.
Steve Austin: I wasn’t as wild as you, i’m not in the same category.
Ric Flair: No I don’t want you to think you were. I’m not slighting you. Like Hunter said himself, there’s two things about Ric Flair. There’s the good side and the part you probably want to just look at and say how is that possible? Not admire it. I have lived. Now that i’m here, I can say this comfortably, the choices I made with women. Nobody made me do that. Choices I made. Paying alimony to three women, right, at one time. Plus paying lawyers, I bottomed out. And bingo, I owed Vince. I paid Vince back. He told me to declare for bankruptcy. He gave $800,000, a loan. Told me to declare bankruptcy. I knew that I couldn’t live with myself if I did. Plus, with Ric Flair, some reasons i’m still here. He finally declared. I told you last night, I’m even-steven. And i’m good and making money, not like you, not Austin and the man, but Ric Flair. Who is going to make a movie about me? Nobody will believe it.
Steve Austin: It’s going to be great.
Undertaker Match At WrestleMania X8 & The Lead Up To Austin Leaving WWE
Steve Austin: Talk to me about Undertaker at WrestleMania X8
Ric Flair: He made me. I told him, there’s two guys that have made me in the business, him. Well, Shawn. At the end of my run, Shawn did, of course. But he and Harley. I tell Taker all the time, Harley made me. If Harley hadn’t showed up for Starrcade, which was iffy because of the snow and there was some other stuff going on which you probably had heard about. If Harley had not shown up there, number one, the NWA would have been dead, but he made me. And then when I was at the absolute worse place for self confidence, Hunter came to me and said Taker wants to work with you on 18. I said Taker does? Really? Like I couldn’t believe it.
Steve Austin: Taker picked you.
Ric Flair: So we worked out a little angle.
Steve Austin: What did you think when you heard that news?
Ric Flair: Well, I was sitting out by the ring. You know, I just hard a time fitting in when I first came back, Steve. I was so much older than all the guys, right. Yeah, I’m 20 years older than you, 20 years older than him, Hunter. I mean everybody, Shawn. But Hunter kept saying, we’ve got this. Because I was never going to wrestle. I was going to be the GM, that’s all I was ever going to do. And then somebody didn’t come to Atlanta one night and I went from being a GM to wrestling Brock.
Steve Austin: Always comes back to me. This is about you.
Ric Flair: I was the co-owner. Where is your stuff? I said why? They said you’re wrestling tonight. I said I own part of the company, not tonight you don’t. You are wrestling Lesnar. I said, no, why me?
Steve Austin: I can’t remember if we talked about this when we were down at my ranch, you came down to do my podcast and you got out of a limousine. Like you couldn’t believe I had a triple wide and a double wide joined together in the middle of nowhere.
Ric Flair: And I would hardly call that a ranch.
Steve Austin: We might have already talked about that. But that was, you know, they wanted me to lose to Brock for no reason.
Ric Flair: No, I know. I’m making a joke.
Steve Austin: I mean no, i’m just saying, it was such a bad decision. I said I ain’t doing it. And there had been a couple of roadblocks thrown at me prior to that. I think they are testing me. They have to be fucking with me in some way, shape or form. Some of this business ain’t making sense. I said finally, i’m out of here. I handled it the wrong way. I should have looked at Vince and said i’m not doing it. I went to San Antonio. I was on Southwest drinking bloody mary’s.
Ric Flair: I saw you the night before.
Steve Austin: Because we were wrestling in the cage. I was like a kid in the candy store.
Ric Flair: You said I ain’t gonna see you tomorrow, kid, I said okay. But I never figured out how that was going to impact my career.
Steve Austin: I loved working with you. I always wished that you and I had would have crossed paths when you were at your peak and I was at my peak. But, you know, it lined up the way it did. But you were in the business of making people. You are Nature Boy Ric Flair. So how did Undertaker make you or give you that confidence back? It’s hard for me to comprehend. Undertaker is way high on the list of people who have had careers in this business as being phenomenal. That’s the greatest gimmick of all time.
Ric Flair: It is by far. Not only a great gimmick, but he’s a great worker.
Steve Austin: No, I mean he was the perfect guy to do that because no one else could have.
Ric Flair: Hunter came to me and Taker asked. And I was in shock, you know, and then I got with Taker. He said yeah. I’m going yeah, but i’m thinking how can I pull this off, I still didn’t have it. Even going down to the ring, i’m thinking, god, do I have this? Because he came down on a Harley.
Steve Austin: That’s a shitty feeling when you’re in the ring wondering if you’ve got it. Ain’t nothing like going to the ring, is there, Ric?
Ric Flair: No, god, Montreal.
– Steve and Ric starts breaking down the film of the Taker/Flair WM X8 Match.
Ric Flair: You know, I walked back through the curtain there and Jack Lanza, good friend of both of our said you pulled it off, you old son of a bitch. I love Lanza.
Self Esteem Issues
Steve Austin: Now, when you talk about the physique, I thought you had the perfect wrestler’s physique. You’ve got your body guys, got your big guys or you big men.
Ric Flair: When I was younger, I think I was okay. Jeez, at this point, i’m a cosmetic nightmare.
Steve Austin: I thought you had the perfect wrestler’s body, you always had the guns.
Ric Flair: Not at 56.
Steve Austin: Yeah, but how many guys can do what you are doing at 55?
Ric Flair: Look at you, you’re 52. Look at you right now.
Steve Austin: My arms look pretty good, but I can’t do what you just did.
Ric Flair: What you saw with me and Taker, then i’d walk away say to myself, nobody else, what if I had been me? And I don’t think I ever have been since the WCW days where they just boom, boom, boom. I was just a shell of myself, like the match that Vince and I had at the Rumble in Atlanta, he wanted to wrestle me. Now, think about this. I go over to Vince McMahon and said, I want to talk to you. This is me. And I am lost and i’m going to wrestle Vince. And he has tears in his eyes. He said I want you to know this is going to be one of the coolest moments of my life in wrestling. How do you think i’m computing this? When I can’t find myself. It’s like Shane in Japan. Shane and I did a spot in Japan. He goes, man, I can’t tell you how cool this is for me to be in the ring with you. I went from being that guy where people were like, god, thank you for this moment to being here today with you calling me the greatest of all time. It’s a roller coaster.
Steve Austin: Stop before you start making me start crying.
Ric Flair: How lucky am I to have people hold me in that regard, to be here with you today, 71 years old tomorrow.
Steve Austin: Happy early birthday.
Ric Flair: Thank you.
Steve Austin: How long did that last?
Ric Flair: I had it real bad when I came back in 2001. I battled it the whole time, up and down until I retired with Shawn. Once you have lost it, it’s really hard to reel it in. Like the cage match that I had on Taboo Tuesday with Hunter in San Diego, once I got going, I was fine. Different things triggered me, finding a level of comfort.
EVOLUTION
Steve Austin: What about the evolution run?
Ric Flair: Great. Another example, though, these guys have given me so much. And I mean I can’t put into words what that meant. You know, here’s Hunter, comes to me I’ve got this idea. And, of course, looking at this kid right here is the best worker in the business right now, Randy, to me all around. If he can’t do it, he can take it. Does that make sense? And here’s Hunter and Dave. Look where Dave is going in the hall of fame. I was just going to manage them at first. Sure enough, Hunter has got me working. He would say to me everybody in the business knows who you are. You don’t have to prove anything to yourself, but go out there and do what you have done. You know, be happy, but I couldn’t. When you lose it, Steve, it’s hard to get back. It’s a real issue. Neve thought about anything. And I knew when I walked out the door, no one could touch me. When that disappears, boy, it’s from here to ground zero.
Steve Austin: What kind of advice were giving these guys? Randy Orton and Dave Batista.
Ric Flair: Well, with Randy, I kid Bob about it now, Randy would have match and would go home and talk to his dad. And Bobby, you know, came up because Randy was like worried about selling and stuff like that. I knew who was talking to him because I wrestled his dad. I said, Randy, here’s the deal. All the respect in the world to your dad, okay. This is a different time. We all sell. He knew who Randy was, but he would say to me, like, god, guys smaller wrestling, it was like Dean Malenko or whatever, right. I said, you know what? There’s no size in this business. But Dave was just right there, ready to go. Just so respectful and so nice. Of course, I sold some rolex watches for rolex.
Steve Austin: But that rub really helped those guys.
Ric Flair: Yeah, I guess. It helped me. I need my third ring shortly.
Steve Austin: Okay, you’re in as Ric Flair. Four Horsemen. Do you think Evolution can go in and be a three time?
Ric Flair: If I could live long enough. I know they are going to go in. Just if i live long enough. Are you kidding?
Steve Austin: What do you think about Dave Batista going in this year?
Ric Flair: I love it. Happy for him.
Steve Austin: So Randy has got to go in there, too. Eventually. Whenever he gets out of the business.
Ric Flair: Randy will go in as a single, both of them and then both go in as Evolution. You know, we were a big part of that show at that time. We got Goldberg over. A lot of guys came in that we got over in that thing. We all fit. When Bill first came in, first guys he got to, he started with Evolution, tag matches and then the last guy was Hunter. Plus, I got to work with all those guys in singles. Randy, I mean, on my way out Randy did a favor. The deal was you lose, you’e gone, right. And Randy was the last guy in Charlotte. I went to Orlando and then Shawn.
Ric’s Retirement Match With Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin: When we were talking earlier about the Royal Rumble from 1992, Shawn Michaels was in that match. Very seasoned guys out there. When we go back and speak of Shawn Michaels because y’all would have a tremendous match at WrestleMania 24 in which you would retire temporarily. My question is, your thoughts on Shawn Michaels? I consider Shawn Michaels just as far as the things that he could do, the greatest performer in the ring that I have ever seen as far as being to bale to encompass anybody’s style, do anything, athleticism. He is just amazing. I have just never seen him screw anything up.
Ric Flair: That’s the greatest moment in my career, getting to the match. He looked at me and no one has ever said to this me, don’t say a word, just follow me. This is my night and it’s your night, but let’s do it. Walk out the door. And I got out there and I tied up. I started to say something, he said I told you to shut up, follow me. And he basically he had a match with himself, which is not the first time because Shawn is that great.
Steve Austin: My question is, when you just told me that you locked up with Shawn Michaels and he tells you don’t say a word, I know when Ric Flair is calling a match just because I know the rhythm of the match. I know you because I have studied you and just loved your body of work. Shawn, I hold him in the highest regard as well. How was it for you for this younger guy to say I got this, i’m calling it?
Ric Flair: It took me like 15 minutes in the match to get where I was comfortable. Then I started thinking to myself, god, how good could it have been if I was on my game? Here. And to this day, I deal with that because I can’t tell people. I can say Shawn led me in that. They go, yeah, right, but they don’t know. It’s hard to explain. Well, if you have been, I’ve never sensed that you have been insecure or that you have lost your self confidence. I don’t see that in Steve Austin. When you lose your self confidence, it is so hard. People can pat you on the back. You can drink and okay, you feel good then. But then you wake up with the same feeling. It wasn’t about my everyday life, but getting in the ring 59 years old, right and i’m wrestling Shawn Michaels. There’s 75,000 people and they are giving me a reaction I never excepted. I mean think about it, to me, I mean everybody has got a great retirement. This is a three day gig for me. Hall of Fame, all my friends have come from all over the country, Shawn. And then the next night, they have me come to Raw. I mean who gets a retirement like that, right? Oh, god. I was lost.
Steve Austin: Here’s this fighting spirit from you. The grizzled veteran, I’m sorry, I love you. Look at that. Talk to me about what you’re feeling right here and just taking that kick, waiting for the cover?
Ric Flair: I’m overwhelmed by the crowd, Steve. I mean look at it. And I’m thinking to myself, I’m the luckiest guy in the world.
Steve Austin: This is the standing O in Gorilla. Some people hear about and some people have never seen. With everything available now, you sometimes see that.
Ric Flair: Yeah, look at John.
Steve Austin: Are you sad at this point?
Ric Flair: I’m still in shock at the reaction from everybody. Look at Steamboat, it was a lot. So many great things with Dusty. What do you say?
TNA Run
Steve Austin: What did you think about your TNA run?
Ric Flair: I needed the money and I had fun, easy. Steve, I got there at 3:00 and I was back at the hotel and the bar at 7:00. That’s when I was really roaring. Kurt was there, Sting was there, Hogan was there. I hated working for Bischoff. I mean it was a sham, but I needed the money. That’s all it was. And I apologize to Vince profusely for even doing it. But very simply I needed the money. And I had a good time with the guys. I didn’t have to do anything and I like Bruce Prichard, too.
Steve Austin: You were like me. I got dropped on my head and then finally I had to get out of the business, but I didn’t have an exit strategy. You never had an exit strategy either, right? You were supposed to last forever.
Ric Flair: I look back at it now and my brand is what it is. And that’s a keyword for guys like you and me now. If we’re getting commercials coming at us, that word brand is a word I never heard of until five years ago. My brand? What is my brand? You know, your brand is you have to quit being whatever you are, wrong because people are looking at you. So if I had a manager to manage me and knew what social media was, like I look at your thing. This is where i’m at now, right? So I’l say to Wendy, I want to be like Steve Austin, just like that. See, you’re smart. I’m smart, i’m just lazy and irresponsible. You’re responsible. I’m irresponsible, but now I have someone that makes me be responsible and takes care of me. Me, Steve, i’m just the same way I wrestled my whole career. First plane, you know, check out the deal. My credit card bounces. It might work, it might not. Call the bank. You’re talking about every time, you have always been responsible.
Injuries & Promos
Steve Austin: Well, no. I have somehow gotten real lucky. I’m lucky I found my wife when I found her. There was a time I was living really hard and really fast and I made a lot of bad decisions. I’m not going to throw myself under the bus, but I have made as many bad decisions as you have. Man, I can’t remember if I talked about this to you or asked this question based on this. But, you know, when you had the plane crash, you broke your back in three different places. Before you had that plane crash, you were a really burly power lifter. I don’t think you would have the career that you ended up having if you didn’t lost the weight after that.
Ric Flair: No way, I went down to 180.
Steve Austin: I had a conversation with Bret Hart after I got dropped on my head by Owen, I turned more into a brawler which fit the Stone Cold Style. And that really kind of helped me, although damn near killed me, it kind of helped me. That plane crash was a terrible thing. Someone lost their life in there and you suffered a broken back.
Ric Flair: Two guys paralyzed.
Steve Austin: I don’t think you’d have had the same success, that’s speculation. But you ended up being the perfect size with the perfect everything to be the greatest of all time.
Ric Flair: It worked out to my advantage. And that’s, you know, the point you just made about yourself, that was your style. You didn’t have to be me. You didn’t have to be the guy working against Steamboat.
Steve Austin: But I was trying to be because I wanted to be like you.
Ric Flair: No, but i’m saying you were. But because of this, it changed you and that was Stone Cold. They weren’t paying to see you be like me. They weren’t paying to see you be Steamboat. What drew the crowd was you. The energy. Your interviews, they are original. That was your stuff, nobody wrote that down for you. I’m at home and i’m watching. I go, Wendy, — because I play it sometimes. One margarita, two hot dogs. Who wrote that down for you?
Steve Austin: Nobody. But on that note, this is one of the things I wanted to know. Your state of animation and your passion that goes into a promo, because you’re living and breathing it. We are very much the same. Amen, i’m in, this stuff is real. Did anybody influenced your promo style? How did you spin into that? Just the guy that was, I don’t want to call it overly confident because it wasn’t I don’t believe narcissistic. It was just cocky, confident, guy can do it all, but highly animated.
Ric Flair: I was living that life. I woke up animated.
Steve Austin: But what kind of time did you put into thinking about promos? How did you invent the material?
Ric Flair: I don’t know, Steve. We’d be out in buckhead until 4 in the morning, you lived in Atlanta before, so you’ve done it. And get to TV at 9. It was like I knew the dream was going to talk where he wrote it down. I knew if I was going out there first, I had to come up with some serious stuff because he was going to run me into the ground. So he hit the book and he put it together. He was really good about that. I had just a great guy, just like you and The Rock, right? I mean, da da, da da. We were the two best at that time. Yeah, you know you’ve got a guy, especially if you’ve got a guy that can talk, right? As an opponent, you’e going to have fun. That’s what makes it good, you know. And I was easy. I mean I was living the life. I was selling booze and women. Hogan was selling vitamins and milk. I don’t think so, jack. That’s just a cover.
Steve Austin: I like that, cheers.
Ric Flair: You were selling margaritas and beer and now you have you own line of IPA. When they bring it to Atlanta, i’l start buying it.
Favorite Era, Programs, Etc.
Steve Austin: With everything that you went through, I wanted to ask you from when you started or when you were a fan watching until now, what is your favorite era of the business?
Ric Flair: The 80’s. I think that would be the favorite era for fans. Here’s the deal, NWA and early WCW, The 80’s into the early 90’s The Attitude Era, which was you. You started it. You initiated it. And then they got Foley and Rock and Hunter and Shawn came back. But I mean, The Attitude Era is a guy that studies the business by watching. It’s Steve, it’s Vince and then a whole bunch of pieces around it. Me, WCW, it was The Four Horsemen, Dusty, The Road Warriors, Rock N Roll, Midnight. We were strong. We had some guys like Buddy Landell, god rest his soul, Buddy Landell was a working fool. He could go.
But look at it, they have got Hogan, right. The rest of the guys didn’t have to be good because they were like a traveling rock band on tour with the lead singer being Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones. And the other guys didn’t have to work. They had a gimmick. Whether it was Brutus with the hair or Honky with the guitar or whatever. The guys that were good workers didn’t have to be good. Ted DiBiase is one of the best workers I ever worked with in my life. Million Dollar Man, he didn’t have to work, you just got in the ring and threw money around. That was my gimmick. That’s what I was doing for real. Pat Patterson himself says to me, that was your gimmick. I said thanks. I was living it.
Steve Austin: And the thing about DiBiase that was so good, he could work his ass off. All off a sudden, the gimmick finally hits because he was always a tremendous worker, especially back in his Mid-South days working for Watts. What was your favorite program you ever worked? You had the trilogy of matches with Steamboat. I loved a lot of your matches with Barry Windham. So underrated. Never really worked a program, but you had some high profile matches.
Ric Flair: Barry is another guy. He’s a guy that should be in the hall of fame by himself, too. So, the favorite program has to be with Dusty for so many years.
Steve Austin: To me, that looks, feels, and smells like pro wrestling. Stale beer, cigarette smoke.
Ric Flair: First Starrcade, me and him, right. 16,000 jam, riotous. Looked at me and said, kid, just like to open at Caesar’s Palace. You know that thing, we found the dream. Bingo, we had so much fun. It was like I was watching this thing today, as I mentioned earlier, the stuff with Colby and Vanessa and the family. His funeral was obviously smaller than that. But he got that kind of respect. I mean Vince and the whole crew came in. I mean the guy, trust me, we didn’t get along every day. We had arguments. You know what I mean? Like i’d have a world title match and the bunkhouse stampede is going last and he’d want me to go out to the bunkhouse stamped which he won, but the world title was mine.
I went to Crockett and said, it doesn’t make sense. But at the end of the day, the guy was a genius. Look at the stuff he did, charismatic, could talk. I mean he was more full of it than me and i was full of it. Arn and I are sitting there on the falcon 10 and we’re flying. And he’s sitting there with Crockett at the table. I can remember this like it was yesterday. He looked at me and says, you know we’re doing a live story on Magnum. I said, yeah. He looked at me and Arn said, yeah, we’ve got Stallone going to play Magnum. And we’re thinking about Sally Fields playing Tamara. Sally had just won like her fourth academy award. You know Arn, right? Arn is like this. Let me see, we got Stallone who is making Rocky and Rambo right now left and right. They got him booked. I mean that was Dusty. I’m not lying.
Steve Austin: My mother went to high school with Dusty Rhodes. I think she was a senior when he was a freshmen in Austin. I remember watching one of my first wrestling shows. We are down there at Edna and someone had Dusty in The Iron Claw. And I was watching TV and my mom was reading her readbook magazine. Dusty was bleeding like a stuck pig. The Sam Houston Coliseum, smoke filled arena, rope banister. There’s a security guard with a side arm walking around the ring. I looked at my mom, Dusty is bleeding his ass off. I said, god dang mom, I said, why don’t the security guard help Dusty? She kind of rolled her eyes and kept looking at her magazine. He’s one of the reasons, along with you, that I got in the business. I mean that’s about as iconic of a photo that you’re going to get. Hey, the woo thing is woven into the american lexicon. We have a couple of wooos here for you. Steamboat is selling his ass off for you. You’re out of your mind. Would you ever figured that would caught on like it did?
The WOOO!
Ric Flair: I have no explanation for that conduct.
Steve Austin: But when you started doing some of that and then a lot of times you’d start taking off your clothes in the ring. We won’t talk about the hotel stuff. Dropping elbows in the middle of the ring.
Ric Flair: Why would we? Everybody knows about it, too. And airplanes. Thank god they didn’t come up to the first class cabin. You probably wouldn’t be talking to me now.
Steve Austin: But who would have thunk it? I mean, like if you go to a wrestling match these days, you know, you go every now and then. People are in there wooing in the building or doing the what. Did you think it would last this long? And how much was that part of your persona? That was your de facto mannerism that just got you out of a jam or elicited a response because we’re always listening to the crowd.
Ric Flair: I listened to country music a lot at night. I had never heard country music coming from Minnesota. When I first started hearing country music, it was about death and the IRS, right. Then it got really upbeat. I’d get little promo stuff from them. But Jerry Lee Lewis, Great Balls Of Fire, wooo. Because I love Jerry Lee. And Little Richard woo’d a little bit too on his stuff. That’s where I got it. One day I started doing it in 1974 and I never stopped.
Charlotte
Steve Austin: Your daughter Ashley, I know her as Charlotte. The world knows her as Charlotte Flair. You said one of the greatest moments of your life was her winning the title from Nikki Bella and here you guys are. When she first came into the business, I mean she originally wasn’t so much enamored or interested.
Ric Flair: She’s in it because of her brother.
Steve Austin: Yes. And once she dedicated herself, I mean that’s when she really came into her own. So it could be hard for someone to come in the shadow of the greatest of all time. And she stepped out of that shadow. And when I watch her on Monday Night Raw or anywhere, she has this composure, this feel of a champion. She’s so confident. What are your thoughts on what your daughter has become? Because she’s your daughter.
Ric Flair: I can’t say enough. I mean the acknowledgment needs to come from you. Me, it’s like she’ll ask me a question and i’ll say most definitely. Look at my dad. What do you really think? That’s what I really think. That’s what I really know, in my opinion. That’s what people say. I mean as even as confident she is, everybody wants to hear something from somebody else. Nobody needs to tell me about a good match in the 80’s. I didn’t need a pat on the back. I didn’t have time. I was raring to get to the bar.
And Arn was already in the car screaming at me, beak, let’s go. It’s wasn’t like, champ, great match. We ran. But, you know, she’s had the weight of the world — I know Dwayne pretty well and now Simone is starting out, right. The Rock’s daughter. It’s tough. What’s really hard I think with Ashley is Rock has stepped away. They don’t look at Rock as being WWE anymore. You’re still WWE. Rock is doing this. But i’m still hanging around. It’s that hanging over her. And it’s not a fair comparison because she is better in the ring than I ever was.
Steve Austin: I don’t think it’s hanging over her anymore, though. That’s my point.
Ric Flair: I know. But I still read an article now and then, you know, in the shadow and it’s so ridiculous. And the people that are saying it know nothing about wrestling, but it makes the news. She knows who she is. Like you can never, especially with a girl. With a boy, I think Mike Rotunda walks around slapping Bray on the back. By the way, he’s doing a phenomenal job. That kid is fantastic. I’m entertained by that.
Steve Austin: I am, too. But it’s such a departure of who IRS was. It’s not even a comparison.
Ric Flair: And Bray Wyatt is a hell of a worker too, but he’s got that gimmick.
Steve Austin: The character work is the best.
Ric Flair: But with a girl, you’re always sensitive and you never want those dips and lulls. You know, it’s like she’s been on top for five years and that’s a long run to be on top. And she’s arguably going to be in one of the best matches at Mania this year with Rhea Ripley. Yeah, I mean in terms of interest.
Steve Austin: It’s cool to be a second generation wrestler. Or if you are lucky enough to be a third generation wrestler. But it’s great to have you as a father. But, man, if her name was Charlotte McGillicutty. Because of her talent and her look and composure, everything that she is, which it’s your DNA. I’m just saying, if she were anybody else and had all the same skillset and the same look, she would be just as over. That’s why I say her career kind of stands on its own.
Ric Flair: I totally agree. But coming from you, it’s better.
LEGACY
Steve Austin: Hey, looking back, tying it all together, your legacy, a part of american pop culture, rappers, everybody still loves you. You are still relevant. Everybody is still going WOOO! You’re in everybody’s videos and you’re doing commercials. You just did a hummus commercial in the super bowl. When you look back at everything that you have done, I know you’ve got some things that you still want to do and you’re going to. How do you feel about the legacy of The Nature Boy Ric Flair?
Ric Flair: Well, that’s something that I actually think about quite a bit because I want to be remembered, as does everybody, for the good things, not the bad. There was nothing ever malicious. I have never done anything illegal. Never taken drugs, but I was out of control. And I will never myself personally get over, you know, the problems that I probably could have helped people through in my family. I could have been there more. Could have been wiser. But I think everybody has that thought process at one point in their life.
I don’t want to remembered as the greatest wrestler of all time. I want to remembered as somebody, because I can barely see it and i’m not afraid to say it. I have influenced a lot of people, you know, whether it was Steve Austin as he started out, whether it was Hunter or Shawn, whether it was some of the guys today, The Miz with the sunglasses. It all started somewhere. And I got the sunglasses from Superstar Billy Graham. Everybody has passed something along the way. And I just hope that the positive stuff that i have done outweighs the negative. That’s where i’m at. Now, there’s another night at Greenville. You coming out that night after I wrestled Hunter. Who has nights like that?
Steve Austin: Yeah, but I mean you’ve got to look at us, man. I got a chance to be a kid in the candy store out there with the goat toasting beers.
Ric Flair: That’s another night. I get to Greenville. Hunter said we’re going to wrestle. I wasn’t ready here and I struggled with that all night long, Steve. At the end, i’m thinking are these guys really doing this? Is Steve Austin bringing beer? You have to look at it from my standpoint because I am at the point where i’m admiring you so much. So i’m sitting there, this is Steve Austin pouring me beers and that. Think about that. You’ve got to put your shoes on me and think how i’m feeling. I didn’t except it. Did I enjoy it? Yes, but then it’s a wake up call I got. Do I really mean this much to these guys? Have I done something that affected their life? That’s how I want to be remembered.
Steve Austin: You did.
Ric Flair: Something positive, not the negative stuff.
Steve Austin: No, no, no, the positive. Yeah, because I have screwed up plenty of times, but the positive. Cheers. You’re the greatest of all time. I love you. Millions and millions of people do all around the world. And thank you for coming on The Broken Skull Sessions.
Ric Flair: I love you too. Thank you, man.
Steve Austin: My name is Stone Cold Steve Austin. This is The Broken Skull Sessions. I just got finished talking with the greatest of all time, Nature Boy Ric Flair. And that’s the bottom line. Why? Because Stone Cold said so.
Checkout Episode 200 of The Hoots Podcast
